Rick Jamieson's Canyons Near Sydney

[Timmy Hills]

I was a bit surprised there wasn't a topic about RJ's book already. Maybe there's enough discussion on other websites about the good and bad of this guidebook? 

Anyway, last Sunday (10/2) at Spiral Canyon, heard from the canyoner's mouth (so to speak) that a fifth edition of the book is in development. Spiral was 'research'. What are your thoughts about this?  What do you hope to see (or not see) in the new edition?

Timmy

[Aegist]

You mean Mr Jamieson said it himself?

The forums are still very new, so there are a lot of discussions missing at this time. The guide does have an entry on his guidebook though, so if you have any information on the book, or anything, feel free to update the guide

As for what I hope to see...I wish he would mention TDMSKP in it

Not counting on it though.

I hope he fixes the Twister/Sheepdip confusion.

[Timmy Hills]

Yeah, sorry, when I wrote that I thought it was a kinda smart way of putting it... oh well.

RJ did do Spiral and inferred another edition was coming.

I agree with you about Twister/Sheepdip. Plus there are some known dodgy map references, misnamed canyons and questionable/confusing descriptions. Also many would argue that some descriptions are too detailed.

Anyway, I'm hoping edition #5 of Canyons Near Sydney sorts out most of the problems, but also is simplified and includes more canyons.

My suggestion would be that RJ could do with some co-contributors/co-writers. Judging from Dave Noble's criticisms, he might like to co-write with Rick! 

Timmy

[Julz]

Where's Spiral canyon? I haven't heard of that one.

Julie

[Timmy Hills]

Hey Julie,

Spiral is out on the Newnes Plateau, off the Mt Galah Road.  It flows into Deanes Creek.   Rather than go into more detail here, I think I'll have a crack at writing it up on the TDMSKP Guide.  I even have a few photos    So stay tuned.

Timmy

[krunglebungle]

Also many would argue that some descriptions are too detailed.

Interesting point. I think it's hard to strike a good balance between providing enough detail and not going overboard with the description. If you just give brief descriptions, and someone gets into trouble, you'll get blamed for not providing "enough" information. If you provide too much some people are going to say you've taken away the "adventure". Different experience levels have different needs and perspectives I guess. Hard to please everybody.

What is the plan for TDMSKP? Are we aiming for detail or brevity? The existing entries definitely lean towards detail. I guess "detailed but concise" is the best way to go...

[Aegist]

That was why I started to make the introductory section (the first paragraphs before the contents) a brief explanation. The idea is that people can just go off the brief description if they want, or keep reading and get the thorough details.

Give them both and let them choose

[Timmy Hills]

What is the plan for TDMSKP? Are we aiming for detail or brevity? The existing entries definitely lean towards detail. I guess "detailed but concise" is the best way to go...

Agreed, I think... It is indeed hard to strike a balance; 'concise' is the key word - please, no essays! 

I would prefer brevity where possible but obviously some detail is very useful - particularly re entry/exit routes and outstanding or unique features - but I don't want to be told exactly what to do and see every step of the way.

I certainly am worried about being told what to expect in the way of anchor points - logs, slings, bolts, fixed ropes, chains, etc. - which can be very changeable features.

At least, for TDMSKP, there is the obvious advantage that its entries can be edited by anyone. If a canyon's features or conditions change, TDSKP's guidebook entry can change. The problem with a printed book like RJ's is that the more detail that's included, the more chance of some form of inadvertent misinformation, as time goes by. And then, a long wait to a reprint. 

Timmy

[Aegist]

Exactly Timmy. The last thing I want, is to have people worry about what *I* want to be done in the guide...I really want it to be a community effort - a community agreement.

I have written a bunch of guides myself as I think they should be done, but I make no claims about that being the best or only way to do it

[Timmy Hills]

http://www.tdmskp.com.au/guide/index.php?title=Spiral_Canyon

Julie and others - a TDMSKP Guide now exists for Spiral Canyon. I'll touch it up a bit in the next few days, eg. some more links and a gallery.

Timmy

[Julz]

Great notes! I'll have to go and do Spiral soon!

Julie

[Aegist]

Wow. Great stuff Timmy.

Now..I wonder why the warning and the frog image in the two warnings at the top of all canyon guides have stopped working... Silly website gremlins.

[Timmy Hills]

Have fun Julz, hope you enjoy. Then feel free to update the Guide! If you can better describe the middle 2 abseils, that'd be great, I was a bit hazy on location.

You know in a way I feel like I'm building things up for a disappointment. Like many canyons in that area it's so much more a bushwalk than canyoning... However that said it's good to cross another off the list, and Deanes Creek was certainly a nice valley.

I see someone has linked the Nearby Canyons at the bottom - thanks, I didn't quite get to that late last night.

Anyway... Aegist - the categories at the bottom had me wondering. I added "Blue Mountains" and "Other Canyons Near Newnes Forest" (a la R Jamieson & his book) - but then of course the Guide creates a category page "Other Canyons Near Newnes Forest" with just Spiral on it.

I wonder what controversy there might be with categories? Could we end up with a ridiculous number of them? Is some general agreement or admin control over categories needed... ohhh it makes my head hurt. I think I'll sit back and see what others do.

Timmy