Database Conversion of Wikimedia

[Aegist]

Hello everyone interested in helping out with the growth of the guidebook.

In the coming months we will be working on converting the default wikimedia to a database system which will enable us far greater control and allow for some really impressive functions to be added in the future.

Part of this database system will be to remove the categories (which I have been using so far as a navigational system) and replace them with tags selected from the database.

So for example, currently we have the Claustral Canyon article in Canyoning, NSW Canyoning, Blue Mountains, Bells Line of Road categories. These are good accurate categories for Claustral and allow people to find it by looking at all canyons in the 'Canyoning' category, or by looking at all of the canyons in NSW by looking at the 'NSW Canyoning' category etc. But what it does not allow is for the users to do anything else with it.

By adding a database system to the wiki, when you create an article like Claustral Canyon you will then be asked what categories it should belong in. You will then select all options that apply - Australia, New South Wales, Blue Mountains, Bells Line of Road, Mt Tomah, Blue Mountains National Park are all regions that the canyon can accurately be described within. Canyoning is another category it belongs under - unlike the current category system, the database system won't need us to then also point out that is it Australia Canyoning, NSW Canyoing, Blue Mountains Canyoning etc, because it will be tagged under all of those regions and that type of activity all at once.

This database style will allow easier methods of searching, exclusionary searching (eg. show me every activity  in the 'blue mountains' which IS NOT 'canyoning'), and not lose the benefit of an outright list of articles under each category.

This is just one of many changes coming, but I just wanted to post this so Rus and I can talk about what he might be able to do to help, and so anyone else can offer any opinions.

Shane

[Aegist]

Another aspect of the database conversion will be the way each page is created. I have spoken to David, the programmer working on this incredible task (full respect to David for even considering to attempt to undertake it with me!) and we have figured that there are a total of 5 different pages that will eventually exist in the guide. These are:

• 1. Guide Articles (activity and location guides - eg serendipity canyon, newnes camping, coast walk walking track, wottamolla)
• 2. Outdoor Organisations (clubs, groups, commercial organisations etc - eg UNSW Outdoor Club, tour guide groups, scout groups etc)
• 3. Information Articles (Encyclopaedia style articles - what is canyoning, hiking, whitewater, what knots should be used, dangers of canyoning, etc etc)
• 4. Special Dynamic Pages (Popular canyons, canyons in NSW, popular articles, completed articles etc - all updated by changes to database)
• 5. Regional Articles (Articles about large general areas. Includes National Parks, geographical regions etc. - New South Wales, Royal National Park, Bungonia, Blue Mountains etc)

Rus, the 6 pages you have listed are all covered under these 6 page types in one way or another. There will be no need to have any sort of 'category page' as the categories invariably are covered by the 'Regional Articles', or by the relevant 'Information Articles', and then again by the 'Special Dynamic pages'. Particularly so by the dynamic pages which will quickly and easily track all articles which are tagged as being a canyon (adding it to the dynamic page of 'All Canyons'), and if it happens to be tagged as NSW, then it will be added to the dynamic pages 'All Canyons' AND 'NSW' AND 'Canyons in NSW'. Again if it is tagged with Canyon, NSW and Blue Mountains then it will by listed in all of those dynamic pages appropriately...


This sort of format removes the hierarchical design  of having subservient categories. I know hierarchies are more traditional, but these days Tagging systems are far more efficient thanks to searching capabilities.

[rustyblade]

Firstly to your 1st post- That would be excellent being able to search for all articles in Blue Mountains 'except Canyoning' for example!  Or say, All Water Sports in the Greater Sydney Region!!!  With what you have said about having interactive maps of some kind built into this process (Woweee)... 
I only understand Basic HTML, and over the past week learnt a fair bit on the Basic Wiki-Formatting - So if you do find a way in which I can lend a hand when I have some spare time - to help test navigation or setup or whatever?? - you know how to contact me!!

And to your 2nd post- So, basically the current hierarchical categories become 'invisible' as far as user is aware of - The database will have all of the complicated relationships pre-linked (& better than now possible).  Those pages (1-5) pretty much some it up for me - now I understand more about what you're plan is!  - I'm liking what I read...............

My Next Question: As this may(?) take some time to set-up this improved database system, and the set-up process may(?) be 'assisted' by having every page created so far 'sorted' in a consistant way (there is a slight bit of untidyness & hidden things at present - to be expected for an infant)..... 
Would it be OK for me to go ahead with formatting categories to the layout I have discussed with you in the meantime - as i'm quite keen to get the satisfaction of being involved in a task like that??  I don't want to create any more work for you in the long run, but I think that this would make it easier for people to find & add articles of all kinds (= more of them) in the next 3 months - or however long it might take to be set-up....
I don't think it would take much longer than a few hours from this point to list every Outdoor Sport Covered by this Guide in my spreadsheet (which i'm  emailing draft to you right now) to make life easier - and then, put all categories, etc back into the Guidebook at a very fast rate..  Untill new system 'arrives' the users will only have to follow checklist for Guide Articles & worry about what to do with any 'new compatible sport' they have thought of including in the guide!!!
 

[Aegist]

Sure, go for it. I don't thinkit will create extra work, and it should hopefully help the process.

The other activity which would probably really help over the long run would be bringing over all of the wikipedia information articles (like you did with surfing) and removing their template references, images (or importing their images) and removing the irrelevant internal links from them.

[rustyblade]

Alrighty - Cool 

I'll have a go at some of that while i'm adding in catagories,  firstly I would add Template:Stub to an article about a sport.  Then come back when all categories for that sport are setup Austalia wide - And will 'expand' on the actual information if I'm able to do so..........

If anyone wants to see where i'm up to with the 'Surfing' article see: http://tdmskp.com.au/guide/index.php?title=Surfing   

If anybody else is curious to find out what categories i'm currently 'Activating' see: http://tdmskp.com.au/guide/index.php?title=Talk:TDMSKP_Guide_Roadmap